44 points by mittermayr 3 hours ago | 20 comments
Geee 2 minutes ago
According to the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there's bound to be one branch of universe where every UUID is the same. Can you imagine what those guys are thinking?
adyavanapalli 1 hour ago
What you're talking about is so extremely rare that it's much more likely that the entire Earth is destroyed by an asteroid right this inst...
jordiburgos 2 hours ago
Please, do not use b6133fd6-70fe-4fe3-bed6-8ca8fc9386cd, I checked my database and I was using it already.
mittermayr 2 hours ago
I knew it, we're all getting the same cheap UUIDs and the good ones are reserved for the big dogs.
Galanwe 1 hour ago
uuid.uuidv4() recently switched to "adaptive entropy" instead of "xmax entropy" in an effort to save costs on non-premium users.
robshep 1 hour ago
I'm using 16b55183-1697-496e-bc8a-854eb9aae0f3 and probably some more too. I suppose if we all post our list here, then we can all check for duplicates?
jsnell 1 hour ago
You can check https://everyuuid.com/ for collisions.
mittermayr 1 hour ago
We should all send our already-generated UUIDs to a shared database, we could just put it on Supabase with a shared username/password posted on HN, so we can all ensure that after generating a UUIDv4 locally, it's not used by anyone else. If it's in the database, we know it's taken.

It's a super simple mechanism, check in common worldwide UUID database, if not in there, you can use it. Perhaps if we use a START TRANSACTION, we could ensure it's not taken as we insert. But that's all easy, I'll ask Claude to wire it up, no problem.

broken-kebab 1 hour ago
But then I will claim I have already used all the UUIDs in my spreadsheets, and my lawyer will send cease&desist letters to every database.
volemo 1 hour ago
A site previously posted here could be useful: https://everyuuid.com/
classified 22 minutes ago
That UUID should have my name sticker on it. Don't your UUIDs have name stickers?
throwaway_19sz 45 minutes ago
Funny story no one will believe, but it’s true. A good friend of mine joined a startup as CTO 10 years ago, high growth phase, maybe 200 devs… In his first week he discovered the company had a microservice for generating new UUIDs. One endpoint with its own dedicated team of 3 engineers …including a database guy (the plot thickens). Other teams were instructed to call this service every time they needed a new ‘safe’ UUID. My pal asked wtf. It turned out this service had its own DB to store every previously issued UUID. Requests were handled as follows: it would generate a UUID, then ‘validate’ it by checking its own database to ensure the newly generated UUID didn’t match any previously generated UUIDs, then insert it, then return it to the client. Peace of mind I guess. The team had its own kanban board and sprints.
leni536 50 minutes ago
It's not happening by chance, there is a bug somewhere.

From what I skimmed the package should just call to the js runtime's crypto.randomUUID(). I think it should always be properly seeded.

I think it is extremely unlikely that the runtime has a bug here, but who knows? What js runtime do you use?

tumdum_ 1 hour ago
Poorly seeded prng.
jdthedisciple 1 hour ago
most likely the culprit indeed
nswango 55 minutes ago
But I used nonstandard nonces!
lyfeninja 22 minutes ago
Although incredibly rare, it's not impossible so probably best to just plan for collisions. A simply retry should suffice. But I agree I feel like something is going on somewhere else ...
samdhar 3 hours ago
The math says no. UUID v4 has 122 bits of randomness, so collision probability for 15K records is N²/(2·2^122) ≈ 2·10^-29. That's somewhere around "fewer collisions per universe lifetime than atoms in your liver." Whatever you're seeing, the culprit is overwhelmingly somewhere else.

Things to check, in descending order of how likely they actually are:

1. Data import / migration / backup restore, perhaps? Did anyone load a CSV, run a seed script, restore a snapshot, or copy rows between environments at any point in the last year? This is what "duplicate UUID" is in 99% of cases. Check git on migrations, ops history on the DB, and ask anyone who might have been moving data around.

2. Application retry / rollback bug maybe? Code path that generates a UUID, attempts insert, fails on constraint violation, retries with the same UUID variable still in scope. Check whether UUID generation lives inside or outside the retry boundary.

3. Older versions of the uuid package in certain bundler environments would fall back to Math.random() instead of crypto.getRandomValues(). What version are you on? Anything <4.x is suspect; modern v8+/v9+ uses crypto everywhere correctly.

4. Could also be a process fork bug. If a UUID generator runs in a child process spawned from a parent that already used the PRNG, the entropy state can get copied. Rare in Node specifically, more historical in old Python/Ruby setups.

If you've ruled all of those out and the row really was generated independently a year apart via crypto.getRandomValues, go buy a lottery ticket. But it's almost certainly cause #1.

uncircle 1 hour ago
Statistically speaking, does extremely unlikely mean impossible? If it were replicable I'd raise my eyebrow, otherwise it's fair game, no?

As someone that enjoys the unterminable complaints about RNG in the video game scene, I would never trust any human's rationalization of random outcomes.

mschild 1 hour ago
> Statistically speaking, does extremely unlikely mean impossible?

No, it means extremely unlikely. Collisions can occur, as op just found out, but the chances are so abysmally small that most people don't care.

Any application I have worked on, I always had a pre-save check to see if the UUID was already present and generate a new one if it was. Don't think it ever triggered unless a bug was introduced somewhere but good practice anyway.

nubg 1 hour ago
You are replying to an AI bot
harperlee 1 hour ago
Would be cool to have a plugin that shows % of bot per user, based on their history of comments.
ashleyn 1 hour ago
There could be a problem with the way the system generates entropy for randomness.
nubg 1 hour ago
Question to fellow HNers, do you recognize that this comment was written by AI?
prakka 1 hour ago
No, to be honest. However, as soon as it was pointed out, I checked again and it made sense.

In my opinion, these kind of intuitions have to grow over time. And every time it’s pointed out, you learn. So please, keep pointing it out :).

piva00 11 minutes ago
Yes but as a feeling (hunch?) not as something my brain analysed and reached a conclusion.

Weird how I'm already somewhat conditioned to spot it on a intuitive level.

tirutiru 1 hour ago
I did not. Post-conditioning by your comment and the other one,I can see some signs such attempting to be unusually comprehensive. The 'atoms in your liver' could be an awkward human trying to be poetic about scales.

I still don't see idiomatic markers of AI so that's scary if your claim is correct.

nottorp 38 minutes ago
Interesting enough, I skipped it when scrolling through the comments the first time. I think I instinctually do that to most karma whoring comments, no matter if manual or LLM generated.

Only noticed it because I did another pass and saw the replies talking about "AI".

uncircle 1 hour ago
I guess not, and I feel dirty now. I'm logging off for the day.
mschild 1 hour ago
Kind of. It reads a bit too much like tech support you'd get when asking one for help.
1 hour ago
ssenssei 53 minutes ago
when it started going on about all the different cases in the second bullet point... yeah
speedgoose 47 minutes ago
Yes, stupid comparison with atoms in the liver and a bullet list below? I stopped reading.
36 minutes ago
NKosmatos 44 minutes ago
> I thought this is technically impossible

Actually it's not impossible, but very very improbable.

P.S. You should play a lottery/powerball ticket

P.P.S. Whenever I use the word improbable, the https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Infinite_Improbability_D... comes in mind

not_math 46 minutes ago
Reminds me of some code I saw running in production. Every time we added a new entry, we were pulling all the UUIDs from this table, generating a new UUID, and checking for collisions up to 10 times.
mittermayr 3 hours ago
I fully agree. It makes no sense. Yet...

The only guesses I'm having is that we originally generated UUIDv4s on a user's phone before sending it to the database, and the UUID generated this morning that collided was created on an Ubuntu server.

I don't fully know how UUIDv4s are generated and what (if anything) about the machine it's being generated on is part of the algorithm, but that's really the only change I can think of, that it used to generated on-device by users, and for many months now, has moved to being generated on server.

AntiUSAbah 1 hour ago
You let users generate a UUID?

To be honest, the chance that you are doing something weird is probably higher than you experiencing a real UUID conflict.

How did your database 'flag' that conflict?

mittermayr 1 hour ago
user-generated (as in: on the user's phone) was only at the very early stages of this product, and we've since moved to on-server. It's a cash-register type of app, where the same invoice must not be stored twice. So we used to generate a fresh invoice_id (uuidv4) on the user's device for each new invoice, and a double-send of that would automatically be flagged server-side (same id twice). This has since moved on to a server-only mechanism.

The database flagged it simply by having a UNIQUE key on the invoice_id column. First entry was from 2025, second entry from today.

stubish 2 hours ago
The UUIDv4 collision is statistically extremely unlikely. What is more likely is both systems used the same seed. This might be just a handful of bytes, increasing the chance of collision to one in billions or even millions.
lazyjones 43 minutes ago
Better check what crypto.js is actually doing in your exact setup. Weak polyfills exist...
glaslong 1 hour ago
Buy some lava lamps
serf 3 hours ago
1 in 4.72 × 10²⁸

1 in 47.3 octillion.

i'd be suspecting a race condition or some other naive mistake, otherwise id be stocking up on lottery tickets.

(lol at the other user posting at the same time about the lottery ticket.. great minds and all that.)

petee 6 minutes ago
I've always looked at it the the other way - being that lucky would mean you have even less chance of something else lucky happening, good time to save your money
wg0 2 hours ago
Would the UUID v7 be more collision proof? Hard to say because it takes time into account but then the number of entropy bits are reduced hence the UUID generated exactly at the same time have more chance of a collusion because number of entropy bits are a much smaller space hence could result in collusions more easily.

Thoughts?

AntiUSAbah 1 hour ago
You open up every millisecond a new block. Should be even more unlikely
sublinear 22 minutes ago
beardyw 2 hours ago
Just a stupid question, but why not append the date, even in seconds as hex. It's just a few bytes and would guarantee that everything OK now will be OK in the future?
flohofwoe 2 hours ago
You can just use a different UUID variant which includes timestamp data instead (e.g. v1 or v7), there are also variants which include the MAC address.
pan69 1 hour ago
> but why not append the date

And use uuid v5 to hash it :)

mittermayr 2 hours ago
yeah, any sort of additional semi-random data could've helped prevent this, I'm sure. That, however, is also kind of the idea of UUIDv4, it has lots of randomness and time built in already.
flohofwoe 2 hours ago
UUID v4 consists of only random bits, no timestamp info.
mittermayr 2 hours ago
oh, interesting, I didn't know that and this could possibly be part of the problem perhaps depending on what's used as the seed.
ares623 54 minutes ago
Buy a lottery ticket
AndreyK1984 58 minutes ago
Why not to have timestamp-uuid instead ?
dgellow 46 minutes ago
How confident are you that your machines clocks are in perfect sync? What about the risk of clock drift + correction, or hardware issues?
naikrovek 2 hours ago
The chance of a UUIDv4 collision is very low, but it is never zero.

If everything is done properly, then this is very likely the one and only time anyone involved in the telling or reading of this account will ever experience this.

dalmo3 2 hours ago
Classic gamblers fallacy!
ESAM_C 2 hours ago
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