38 points by JoachimS 5 days ago | 3 comments
olirex99 31 minutes ago
I am pursuing a PhD in indoor localization, and UWB is still far superior. That is the reason why major phone companies still include a UWB chip and are not switching to BLE 6.0.

I have compared them, and because BLE is a narrowband signal, it is highly susceptible to Non-Line-of-Sight (NLOS) conditions compared to UWB.

I also attended a prototype presentation by a large European silicon company. I noticed that even in their demo, BLE did not achieve 30 cm accuracy, but rather hovered around 1 m.

I have only tested PBR and RTT ranging with a simple Kalman Filter, so maybe someone has found a clever combination of these data sources (I hope).

srcmax 1 hour ago
New devices, such as Pixel 10 already support channel sounding. Basically it's alternative to UWB. One phone sends signals on multiple frequencies, another receives them. Obviously devices should be connected via BT. Also tracking people already works with BT/WiFi RSSI (signal strength). Channel Sounding works better because it works even when the signal line of sight is obstructed, for ex. headphones lost under pillow.
avidiax 2 hours ago
Edit: It seems I'm wrong. Channel sounding requires an encrypted connection. It's not something that can be done between a passive device and your phone.

It will allow things like secure entry (walk up to a door and it opens, be near your car and you can open it), finding your devices (lost keys, headphones, remotes, etc.), auto-unlocking for your laptop, and more.

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This is a really cool technology that is going to allow essentially indoor GPS. Imagine going to a mall, and you open a map on your phone, and it immediately knows where you are to under 1m error.

halapro 2 hours ago
Do you still need "satellites" installed indoors to work? Because then you'd have to convince every business that this cost has a direct positive effect on their sales.

A lot of brick and mortar stores are based on the assumption that a lost customer will buy more things, so I don't see this happening.

rtutz 2 hours ago
Think about how this information could be used. As a store owner you can precisely track movement of customers and optimize the shop layout.

BT hardware is also rather affordable.

AlotOfReading 2 hours ago
You're already tracked like that. I was building solutions to do it well over a decade ago. One customer was well known for their mouse themed hats. A famous hotel brand in a well known casino city used it to track employees instead. I no longer do that for obvious ethical reasons.

There may be a rare few legitimate uses for improving the accuracy, but it also makes those privacy nightmares worse.

kenhwang 1 hour ago
My previous employer already had a product offering that could do this for a better part of a decade by triangulating with WiFi/BLE and cross referencing with surveillance footage. It was deployed in malls and retail chains.

It generated interesting information, but not interesting enough to be profitable.

We weren't the only ones with this capability either, most major retailers had this level of analytics through surveillance footage that previously existed for loss prevention purposes. Then simply link the data to a rewards number or credit card and you got a stable tracking identity.

jacquesm 56 minutes ago
And guess what, that shop layout is not going to be optimized for the customer's convenience, but for the shop's profits. These kind of solutions tend to converge on the 'Hotel California' model: you can enter, but you can no longer leave.
jacquesm 58 minutes ago
Indeed, screw IKEA.
jesperwe 2 hours ago
I can imageine that. Although not using Channel Sounding, as it has a accuracy of +/- 200mm according to TFA. Which is still very good, though.
flowerthoughts 1 hour ago
I don't follow your reasoning. (+-)200 mm is better accuracy than 1000 mm.
jesperwe 1 hour ago
1m? 1mm? Apparently I was seeing double